In a memorable scene from the Oscar-winning epic “Gladiator,” Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius tells General Maximus that he finds it difficult to imagine Maximus as a farmer in his native Spain, alluding to Maximus’s original passion for farming.

Similarly, it’s hard to picture Peter Bouckaert as a farmer tending to his passion project in rural Madagascar, especially given his spick and span presence in urban settings. “Growing things heals the soul,” he quipped when he was asked about wearing his farmer’s hat.

Peter is one of the most distinguished human rights defenders globally, having documented human rights abuses across the world for nearly two decades.

From Chechnya and Afghanistan to Sri Lanka and Sierra Leone, Peter has been everywhere. For almost twenty years, he worked with Human Rights Watch (HRW), most recently serving as its Emergency Director.

A Stanford Law School graduate, Peter chose the field of human rights out of a deep compassion for those in need of advocacy and a voice to highlight their suffering.

Currently, Peter serves as the Senior Director at “Fortify Rights,” a position he began earlier this year. He recently visited Bangladesh to investigate and document the excessive police violence and human rights abuses during the July uprising.

Bangla Outlook (English) editor Faisal Mahmud had the opportunity to pick his brain for half an hour, discussing his human rights work and his investigation into the violence of the July uprising.

Here is an excerpt from that conversation.

Faisal Mahmud: My first question is about your background. With your training and education as a lawyer, when did you first consider working in human rights? What motivated you to start working for a human rights organization?

Peter Bouckaert: While I was at Stanford Law School in 1994, I worked with the Legal Resources Center in South Africa during the country's transition from apartheid to democracy. At that time, we were involved in drafting the Truth and Reconciliation Bill and advocating for the abolition of the death penalty.

It was through this experience that I recognized how the law can play a crucial role in steering society toward reconciliation and holding accountable those responsible for past human rights abuses.

FM: So that was your first assignment?

PB: Yes, you can call that as my first assignment. Afterward, I went on to work in the conflicts in Kosovo and the Balkans, and also to document the war in Uganda involving the Lord's Resistance Army. This was particularly challenging since I had just graduated from law school. I found myself in northern Uganda interviewing 14-year-old boys who had been abducted by the Lord's Resistance Army and forced to kill. I recall one boy, just 14, who claimed to have killed as many as 50 people. It was deeply unsettling to confront the extent of the brutality and evil in these conflicts.

FM: Given your extensive experience documenting human rights abuses around the world, could you share which countries you’ve worked in have had the most profound personal impact on you, and explain why?

PB: The conflicts that have impacted me the most were, first, the war in Chechnya between the Chechens and the Russian government. I was deeply moved by the Chechen people's determination to achieve independence despite the extreme brutality they faced.

The fighting was so intense that hospitals were often covered in blood, yet the Chechens remained resolute in their fight for freedom. Despite Russia's portrayal of them as terrorists, I found the Chechen people to be among the most hospitable I’ve ever encountered.

The second conflict that profoundly affected me was the civil war in the Central African Republic during 2014 and 2015. This conflict, often mischaracterized as a war between Christians and Muslims, was actually a war between Muslims and the traditional animist believers.

One incident stands out: a young boy, about 11 years old, was stopped by rebels along with his mother. The mother pleaded for her son's life, but the rebels decided to kill him because, as a Muslim, he was considered a future threat. This moment underscored the extreme and tragic consequences of the conflict.

FM: With your experience in Iraq and Afghanistan, how would you compare the human rights abuses you observed there to those in other regions you've worked in? Were the violations similar to those in other areas, or did you find any unique aspects specific to these regions?

PB: During my time in Libya during the revolution, I encountered some Salafi fighters who asked when America would come to their aid. I responded by pointing out the outcomes in Iraq and Afghanistan, noting that American intervention in Muslim conflicts often does more harm than good.

Instead of using military force, we should support democracy by helping people build their own democratic systems. The reality is that many more people died in Iraq and Afghanistan after U.S. military involvement than under Saddam Hussein and the Taliban.

The key lesson is that democratic institutions cannot be imposed through military means. We should focus on supporting democratic forces within these countries by promoting human rights and democratic values, without resorting to military intervention.

FM: Have you ever worked in Gaza?

PB: Yes, I have spent a great deal of time in Gaza and still stay in regular contact with human rights activists and friends there. The situation is profoundly disempowering because Gaza is entirely enclosed by walls, making it nearly impossible for humanitarian aid to enter or for investigators and journalists to document the situation.

This results in a silent crime against humanity, with efforts to block the world from witnessing the reality. I have deep respect for the brave journalists and human rights activists who have sacrificed their lives to report on the events in Gaza and continue to do so despite the immense risks, working tirelessly to expose the daily atrocities taking place there.

FM: How many times have you worked in Bangladesh? I know you have dealt with Rohingya issues, but is this your first visit to document human rights violations in Bangladesh outside of the Rohingya context?

PB: I visited Bangladesh in 2016 and 2017 to document the genocide against the Rohingya. Despite the significant political changes in Bangladesh since then, it is crucial not to overlook the Rohingya issue. Over one million Rohingya currently live in Bangladesh, and the conflict continues, as evidenced by the recent massacre by the Arakan Army in August, which resulted in over 100 Rohingya deaths.

Bangladesh has made a commendable effort by providing refuge to more than a million Rohingya, but they need greater international support to adequately feed, house, and ensure their rights to education and freedom of movement. The Rohingya face major challenges, such as their children being unable to attend school and restrictions on employment. They seek to live with dignity, work, and support their families, which requires the ability to move beyond the camps.

The Rohingya and the Bengali people share linguistic and cultural similarities, and it is important that Bangladesh continues to support them. However, there should be no talk of returning them to what remains a war zone in Myanmar. The international community must also step up, as hosting one million people is a significant burden for a poor country.

Increased resettlement options and financial assistance are necessary to support Bangladesh in providing a dignified life for the Rohingya until they can return to their homes in Myanmar, which remains their greatest hope.

FM: As I mentioned earlier, aside from your work in the Rohingya camps, have you previously addressed any other human rights violations in Bangladesh, or is this your first time focusing on these issues?

PB: During my time with Human Rights Watch, we extensively investigated the RAB killings, executions, and disappearances, which occurred some time ago. However, this is my first mission focusing on recent political violence and the current situation in Bangladesh.

FM: Can you provide a brief overview of what you’ve observed here? What types of violations have occurred? Are you able to discuss them at this moment, or would you prefer not to disclose the details right now?

PB: The violence in Bangladesh during July and August was particularly troubling because it involved not only security forces attacking protesters but also the Awami League and the student league playing a prominent role in the violence. It is deeply disturbing to see private citizens affiliated with these groups standing alongside the police, armed and shooting at protesters.

This indicates state-sanctioned violence, which complicates efforts to hold those responsible accountable, as many individuals who supported the Awami League and student league were directly involved in the violence.

Currently, we face a significant challenge in seeking justice for those who were harmed or lost loved ones during the conflict while preventing mob justice. It's crucial that people do not take the law into their own hands to seek revenge against those they believe are responsible. Instead, there needs to be a process for both accountability and reconciliation.

Another key issue is that while Sheikh Hasina and other leaders may have left the country, the instruments of repression—the security forces and state apparatus—remain. We must ensure that any new political administration does not continue to use these repressive tools to perpetuate the system of control.

The police and security forces often support the regime because many individuals benefit economically through clientelism, receiving business deals and economic advantages. This pattern is not unique to Bangladesh but is seen in countries like Egypt, Syria, and Myanmar, where an economic elite benefits from maintaining the system.

In Bangladesh, this system contributes to widespread poverty as the economic benefits are concentrated in the hands of a few, while ordinary citizens, including educated students who struggle to find jobs, suffer. Addressing this economic inequality is essential to resolving the underlying issues that fuel protests and instability.

The problem lies not just with the current leaders but with the broader system of political repression and economic clientelism. For meaningful change, we need to reform the system itself, not just replace its leaders.

FM: As an experienced human rights researcher and advocate, do you have any specific advice for individuals aspiring to work in the field of human rights? What should they focus on, and what type of research or work should they engage in?

PB: Bangladesh has nearly lost an entire generation of human rights activists since 2013 due to restrictions on teaching human rights law and the government’s actions against human rights organizations, including shutting them down and freezing their bank accounts. A major priority now should be training a new generation of human rights activists and empowering them to protect their fellow citizens' rights.

My key advice to them is to understand that human rights documentation must remain non-political. It doesn’t matter which party is responsible for the violations, whether it’s the ruling party or the opposition. Human rights abuses must be documented objectively and impartially.

Allowing abuses to go unchecked because they are committed by a party we support only perpetuates a cycle of violations. It is crucial to ensure that this government, and any future government, respects the human rights of all individuals, including those affiliated with the Awami League and Chattra League.

FM: For my final question, which is a bit more personal, could you share some details about your personal life? I understand you moved to Madagascar and became involved in a farming project there, even providing employment to some refugees. What prompted your move to Madagascar, and what drew you to farming and these related activities?

PB: After witnessing the Rohingya genocide, I felt a profound sense of hopelessness. We saw hundreds of thousands of people displaced and massacred within a few weeks, and we were unable to prevent the violence and destruction. This experience led me to shift my focus and build a farm in Madagascar in 2017.

I also have a farm in France, located in Burgundy, where we’ve provided employment and support to refugees from Syria, Afghanistan, and other regions. In Madagascar, our project includes funding the education of over 200 local children by covering their school fees and supplies.

I believe in living our values through our actions. Many Muslims understand the importance of giving and sharing, reflected in practices like prayer and Zakat. For me, these values are central to being human and supporting one another.

FM: Thank you for giving me your time.

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